Philip Lawrence is a songwriter, record producer and entrepreneur best known for his work with the songwriting and production team, The Smeezingtons, alongside Bruno Mars. Philip has won an impressive eight Grammy Awards for his work in the music industry. At the height of his success, and dealing with the challenges of superstardom as well as life on the road, Philip began an inward journey that began with his sobriety just over four years ago. His life looks very different than it did before, and what he has gained throughout this journey is newfound humility as well as a new design for living. Today, Philip opens up about his struggles with addiction and the moment he realized he needed to go into recovery. Philip speaks to his experience going through all of this as an African American and provides advice for others going through a similar situation. Finally, Philip reflects on how his vision of success has dramatically changed and why he believes his most creative years are yet to come.
Key Takeaways
01:12 – Phillip Lawrence shares what he learned from his inward journey to sobriety and accepting the truth
08:49 – Philip opens up about his divorce
11:37 – Advice Philip would give to artists that are struggling with addiction
15:09 – Philip reflects on his experience being an African American in recovery and helping others in the African American community with recovery
19:22 – The Artists in Recovery event that Philip performed at
21:47 – Philip talks about the new TV show he will be hosting, Come Dance With Me
24:10 – The highest and lowest points of Philip’s professional career
29:59 – Parting words of advice from Philip
32:09 – Dr. Flowers and Robin thank Philip for joining the show and let listeners know where they can follow him
Tweetable Quotes
“I think early on I began to use music as my identity. I began to think that that was who I was. And, as I look back on that now, I realize that A, that’s not who I am, it’s just what I do. And B, there is a false sense of validation as a performer and, in performing from such a young age, I became not only addicted to that but conditioned that, wherever I go, I’m gonna be applauded for it.” (05:42)
“I think the biggest thing for me in life in general is just my awareness of the moment. My being present; my being where my feet are. And so, there’s a level of appreciation and gratitude that comes with, ‘Oh my goodness, look at what I get to do. Look at where I am. Look at the beautiful life that God has gifted me with.’” (14:27)
“I realized that I had misdefined success. I was not successful. I thought I was. Success cannot be appreciated if you can’t enjoy it. You can’t call it success if that’s what’s happening.” (26:35)
“Don’t be afraid to ask for help. That was a big one for me. I didn’t know how. Help is a phone call away. Check in with each other. Reach out to people that maybe you haven’t spoken to in a while. We all need confirmation that everything’s gonna be ok, despite what we’re going through. Reach out and lift someone up.” (30:11)
Resources Mentioned
JFlowers Health Institute – https://jflowershealth.com
JFlowers Health Institute Contact – (713) 783-6655
Subscribe on your favorite player: https://understanding-the-human-condition.captivate.fm/listen
Philip’s Website – https://www.cmntyculture.com
CMNTY Culture Twitter – https://twitter.com/CMNTYCulture
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Listen to the podcast here
Philip Lawrence – Making Music, Finding Peace And Joy Through Sobriety
How are you?
I’m good. How are you?
Super excited. After Super Bowl weekend in Los Angeles, we had an amazing time, but I’m even more excited about our guest. We have the amazing eight-time Grammy-winning artist Philip Lawrence. Are you in your study? Where are you?
This is right in the main living space, overlooking the mountains because we’re in the hills.
It’s a great space for creativity and meditation.
Yes, it is.
To everyone reading, Philip is best known for more than a decade of collaboration with Bruno Mars and so many others. At the height of his success and dealing with the challenges of superstardom and life on the road, Phil began an inward journey that started with his sobriety. His life looks very different than it did before and what he has gained in humility and his new design for living has led to some of his most creative years yet.
There’s so much more to the bio. We wanted you to tell us some of your amazing history, but I wanted to start by saying congrats on four years. That is huge. If you don’t mind, I’d love for you to share a little bit of your story. Can you do that? What brought you to sobriety?
An Inward Journey To Sobriety
I can. I feel like I should start high. Philip, alcoholic. Mine is a journey of accepting the truth. For a long time, I believed a false truth about myself, that I was this artist willing and ready to do whatever, and there wasn’t an anchor keeping me from trying everything. I began singing at a very early age. I come from a very musical family. My mom was a choir director. Dad was a deacon. My brother, sister and I sang in church every Sunday. Even if we didn’t want to, my mom wouldn’t have it any other way.
Where was that, by the way?
Indiana. I grew up in the Midwest. Early on, I began to use music as my identity. I began to think that was who I was. As I look back on that now, I realize A) that’s not who I am. It’s just what I do. B) There is a false sense of validation as a performer. When we’re on stage, we’re so used to and ready for that applause. Performing from such a young age, I became not only addicted to that but conditioned to believe that wherever I go, I’ll be applauded. That was my validation. That ensured I was doing okay and I was in the right place.
I think I chased that feeling my whole life. There’s a part of that that drove me to the success I achieved, which is great, but then there are those stereotypical trappings of the entertainment industry that I swore I would never fall victim to caught up with me. You read these stories, and you think, “That’ll never be me. How could I do some of those things? He spent that much money. How did he do that? He’s an idiot.”
What I learned is that a lot of times, until you’re in that position, you just don’t quite know what you’re going to do if you don’t know who you are. I started that journey into discovering myself, and I think it’s an onward journey that we’ll go through until the day we die. Hopefully, we’re always evolving and learning about who we are and how we can be of service to the world around us. However, until that happened for me, it was anything goes. I got married, my wife and I have four children, and I would do things that would not only harm myself but harm my marriage.
Hopefully we’re always evolving we’re learning about who we are and how we can be of service to the world around us.
I always asked myself, “Why am I doing this? It’s not who I am and it’s not what I want to do.” It’s this default wiring I had for so many years. When life had finally beaten me down enough and I had caused enough pain to myself, my family, and others, I felt like I had become more of a liability than an asset, it was time. There was a moment that happened in the midst of the great success that Bruno and I had achieved when I was faced with the life before me and faced with a choice of, “It’s all catching up to you now, my man. Who do you want to be, and what are you going to do?” My wife was like, “All right, I’m leaving you.”
How old were the kids?
They were young but old enough to be impacted by my behavior. My wife gave me an ultimatum. “You need to get help.” I went to the Betty Ford Center. That was the beginning of my life changing.
You had an external voice, your wife saying, “You need help. You need to do this, or I’m leaving,” and then you had an internal acceptance. It sounds like you finally came to a point of realizing, “I’m going to lose my wife and family or go to the Betty Ford Center.” Was there an intervention involved?
There wasn’t an intervention, but it’s interesting. I was ready. I was tired.
You were probably sick of being sick in the morning.
Yes. Sick of apologizing and making excuses like, “I didn’t mean that,” and all of these things that I thought were my identity. I had adopted these belief systems that I thought defined who I was. I’m going to cheat, I’m going to lie, I’m going to party, I’m going to be the life of the party, I’m going to drink more than anyone else.
As a Grammy award-winning artist, at the time you were going to Betty Ford, did anyone ever talk to you about the foundation arm of the Grammys, MusicCares?
They did. Absolutely. I was introduced to some phenomenal people from MusicCares.
Did you ever meet Shireen Jante?
I didn’t meet Shireen, but I met Harold.
Harold Owens.
We’re interviewing him.
Advice To Artists Struggling With Addiction
He’s going to be here. What an amazing man. His life and his story. One of my good personal friends and colleagues. The Betty Ford Center has a history of excellence. I had a personal relationship many years ago with the Betty Ford Center, a professional relationship with Betty Ford. The woman, Betty Ford, was amazing. What a story and an amazing human being. I’m so glad that you had that opportunity, and here you are now. What advice would you give? I’m not a musician. I’m not an artist. I treat a lot of musicians and artists at J. Flowers Health Institute and work with the Grammys Foundation quite a bit. I go to a lot of events backstage. I see a lot of things going on. When you see an artist that’s struggling and you know it in your heart and mind, and you see them, what advice would you give either young artists or 70-year-old artists that are struggling and would benefit from a life of recovery but don’t know how to get there?
There’s a laundry list of things that we can begin to pay attention to around taking care of ourselves. In our industry, it’s important to pay attention to who’s around you as well, like who’s co-signing your stuff. What I learned and what I often tell kids that I meet is that it’s awesome to chase your dreams. It’s important to be driven and sacrifice things for them, but don’t sacrifice yourself along the way. Get to know yourself along the journey. Take stock of your actions and who you are, and seek out people you admire.
Try to pick their brain. “How did you get there? What are some of the things you learned?” It’s about trying to have some self-awareness. I think what happens, and I know what happened for me, is that as an artist, it’s such a long, arduous, challenging road that, by the very nature of trying to be successful, we almost have to have blinders on. We have to give so much of ourselves to achieve whatever it is we’re going after. I was thinking of this. many other things were left by the wayside in terms of my personality and behavior. My advice would be to open the blinders a bit and pay attention to the periphery of what you’re doing in search of where you’re trying to go.
Pay attention to the periphery of what you’re doing, in search of where you’re trying to go.
I’m sure the collaboration that you had with so many amazing artists prior to recovery and post-recovery were both amazing experiences, but this collaboration probably looks a whole lot different, doesn’t it? Talk a bit about that.
It does. I think the biggest thing for me in life, in general, is my awareness of the moment. My being present. My being where my feet are. There’s a level of appreciation and gratitude that comes with, “Look at what I get to do. Look at where I am. Look at the beautiful life that God has gifted me with.” I think before, I was appreciative and certainly grateful, but there was this go, go, go mentality of what’s next, and very rarely did I get a chance to stop and smell the roses and say, “Hey.”
Something I’d love to talk about, if you don’t mind, is also going to the Betty Ford Center and being in recovery. As an African American in treatment centers all over the United States, unfortunately, we don’t see a large percentage of a treatment center being African American. I’ve been in almost every treatment center around the country. Their percentage is very low. We always talk about in your community that we go to the church. We tend to talk to our pastors and work on it within the family. Talk a little bit about the experience of being African American in recovery and helping other African Americans in recovery.
I come from Indiana. There are a lot of challenges that come from where I grew up. I’m used to being among a few among many, even in high school. It’s interesting. All of the schools that I went to, from elementary to middle school to high school, were 95% White and 5% Black. In college, I chose to go to a Black college so that I could have a different experience. What a different experience.
Clearly, it did you good.
Yes, it did. I think that there are a myriad of reasons why we don’t see as many Black faces. Access and understanding. I think going to church and having faith is massively important in your life in general, but what I’ve learned is that you still need tools. You still need guidance. You still need a design. There is only so much that certain churches can offer. Maybe there are other churches that are a little more equipped with what they offer their congregation. In terms of how to get sober and what that looks like, we have this belief system. We pray it away. “Praying, baby. That’s all you need. It’s going to be all right. It’s going to get better.” That’s just not true. The truth is we get better by what we do. It’s all in the action that we take. I love that in AA, the idea that knowledge alone is not going to keep me sober.
We get better by what we do. It’s all in the action that we take.
That’s what I experienced in my marriage. Just because I don’t want to do the things that I’m doing, I still don’t know how to not do them. I live in the valley in LA. A lot of the meetings that I go to are not Black-heavy, to vary it up. As a matter of fact, my sponsee is going to come here. We’re going to go through the first three steps, and he’s Black. I love it.
One of the things he said to me was, “It was so great to see somebody who looks like me, is in recovery, and can take me through the steps and speak to an experience that maybe someone else may not have.” It’s so important for guys like Harold and me to make ourselves available to say, “I’m here. There’s a story that I can maybe share with you that will help. Here’s another way.”
Thank you. I always tell Harold the same thing, but thank you for being such a role model to Black men and women who are struggling and for being able to tell them there is recovery. There is another life. Let me tell you how to do it. Let me give you a little bit of guidance here. It’s also important to encourage treatment centers in our industry to provide better access for everyone. Thank you for that.
I want to hear about this artist-in-recovery event that you played at. Tell us about that.
There’s a good friend of mine who is actually a member of my home group in Studio City. Shout out to Moore Park. We had become friendly, and he was putting together this event that was celebrating and honoring Leigh Steinberg. What is her name? I keep forgetting her name, but she’s a relatively famous news reporter in LA.
I know who you’re talking about. I cannot think of her name, but you’re right.
She wrote this incredible book about her journey to sobriety. That’s funny. I can’t place her name. He asked if I would perform at the event. He was like, “You can do whatever you want.” The typical thing would be to sing an inspirational song, but I decided to do some homework on both of their stories and I wrote an original song.
When Leigh Steinberg calls, you answer. We had an amazing opportunity in Los Angeles to sponsor the Brain Health Room for traumatic brain injury prevention in the NFL, high school, and even elementary school kids at Leigh Steinberg’s 35th annual Super Bowl party at Sony Studios. It was absolutely amazing. When he asked us to do it, you just don’t say no to Leigh Steinberg.
You don’t. Not at all. What a story he has.
What a story. Do you realize that he is responsible for over $800 million in philanthropic donations through both himself and his players?
I didn’t know that.
Just amazing. What a story he has. It’s amazing. It was a great event.
I had to stay behind and help hold the fort down.
You had to run the office.
I didn’t see any of it.
Tell us about your TV show. You have a TV show coming out.
Who, me? What is that about?
You’re not going to tell us much.
Robin told me not to bring it up, but I’m bringing it up. I broke the secret.
Now, I’m not allowed. There are certain things I can’t say because it’s not 100% official yet, but it’s one of the many gifts of sobriety. When I got off the road and started working on myself, it opened doors for other things I always wanted to do. One of them is acting and being a TV host. I’m going to be the host of a new CBS show. Go me.
Congratulations.
Thank you. It’s so cool.
Super exciting.
It’s very exciting. It’s a great concept. It’s called Come Dance With Me. It’ll be out soon. CBS is throwing their hat in the ring with dance shows like So You Think You Can Dance and shows like that. It takes these professional kid dancers who are phenomenal, from ages 8 to 14, and they get to ask a parent to come dance with them. A parent who doesn’t dance. They pair them together. We’ve hired these professional choreographers to teach them these incredibly intricate routines. They’re competing for the grand prize to see who will be standing in the end.
That’s amazing in so many ways. First, you’re doing it with adolescents and children, and then you’re doing it with their parents, building that relationship and bond. That’s so cool. I know I would be the most awkward person out there, doing the White boy dance. Somebody needs to give me a little rhythm because I don’t have any.
I’ve never seen you dance.
I can’t sing. I can’t carry a tune in a bucket. I can’t dance.
Yes, but you’re brilliant in the field of chronic pain and mental health.
We’ve got to have you on the show because, by the end of it, you’ll be like, “Hey now.”
Give us a call.
I’d love to see that.
That would be great.
Career Highs And Lows
Roses and Thorns. What was the highest part of your professional career, and what was the lowest?
It’s interesting. I think it happened on the same night. The same experience. It was the catalyst that brought me to this journey and to recovery. I was at the height of my career, and we were nominated for awards. I won’t say which award show, but it’s the pinnacle in music. Something that, as a kid, this is what you dream about. This is what you do. Everything you’re doing is for a moment like this. We were being celebrated for an album that we had worked hard on and were very proud of. In every category that we were nominated in, we won. Everybody on the team, we all won. It was historical and monumental. All of the beautiful things about success that you can dream about.
On the flip side of that, the day before this event, my wife got a call from a girl that I had been with overseas. We were speaking about that tired thing I was experiencing in the months leading to this moment. She asked me about it. My wife said, “Is this true?” Generally, I would say, “It’s a rumor, it’s a lie, it’s nothing,” but this time, I said, “It’s true and I need help.” This was the day before the biggest day. It’s funny that you talk about Roses and Thorns. That’s exactly what that was. What I realized is that here is this thing I’ve dreamt about my whole life, and I can’t even enjoy it because of my addiction, my disease, and my behavior. I can’t even enjoy this thing that happens to a handful of people.
The statistics of you getting to where you are are slim. The fact that you got there is very slim.
I realized that I had misdefined success. I was not successful. I thought I was. Success cannot be appreciated if you can’t enjoy it. You can’t call it success if that’s what’s happening. That was the moment. I didn’t lie to her for the first time. I said, “It’s true, and something’s got to change.” That began the journey.
Success cannot be appreciated if you can’t enjoy it.
Congratulations. That’s amazing. Speaking of the slim chances of getting where you are, I was in LA and stayed at the Sunset Marquis. They have the Morrison Studio right there in the front with all the photos of historic figures in music. I was looking at the walls, and there was Amy Winehouse, these beautiful photos of Amy Winehouse performing at the peak of her career. I looked at another wall, and there was Michael Jackson. There were 2 or 3 photos of Michael Jackson.
I was flipping through some, and there was Prince. I looked through, and there were so many other artists. There are tons of hugely successful artists who continue to be successful. What I noticed in my mind, as I was flipping through and looking at these walls, is how many people lose their lives to addiction, and you didn’t do it. By the grace of God, you’re sitting here.
It’s a blessing, and as someone in recovery, you ask yourself, “Why me?” All the times that I was partying and doing everything, putting all these things in my body, how am I still here? It’s more motivation to go out and help somebody.
You’re great at mentorship.
Absolutely. It’s so important. Thank you.
Follow Leigh Steinberg’s lead on that, one of the best mentors in the world. He makes every football player that he signs go through a mentorship program.
I think that’s awesome.
He teaches them how to be mentors, how to be leaders, and how to give back. Every football player he signs has to agree to give a certain amount to their foundation to help underprivileged children around the United States or wherever they choose.
That’s amazing.
Part of your recovery is clearly giving back, teaching others, helping others, and rising up.
Without instruction, oftentimes, we don’t know what to do. In the entertainment industry and in sports, there’s this magnifying glass not only on your life but also on your financial life. All of a sudden, you go from nothing to millions of dollars, and that will show you that you are, too.
You’re not prepared for that as a kid coming from Indiana. Who prepared you for that? No one.
I love to hear that, like, “Let me get you some instruction right away. Let me pair you with this person. They’ve been where you’re going. Trust me, you need to have some conversation.”
Unfortunately, we are out of time. I want to ask you, is there anything else that you want to say to the audience and the world out there? Any advice that you have for folks?
Don’t be afraid to ask for help. That was a big one for me. I didn’t know how. Help is a phone call away. Check in with each other. Reach out to people that maybe you haven’t spoken to in a while. We all need confirmation that everything’s going to be okay, despite what we’re going through. Reach out and lift someone up. We get so busy with our lives, careers, and all the things that we feel are important. Of course, there is importance in that area, but we’re here to help each other, to be of service, and to try to bring out the best in each other. I would encourage people to offer a smile, give a hug. All of those little things add up to making a big life.
The other thing I’ll throw in there quickly, talking about lifting people up and listening to people, is that we’ve had a Black Miss America commit suicide. Everyone thought, “Here’s a successful woman on ET. Here’s a successful Miss America who’s an attorney. She was happy. She was thriving and doing amazing and she chose to end her life.” She didn’t reach out. We don’t know what she may have, but she didn’t make it.
What we also need to do is listen, watch, and take care of our friends and family. In LA, a huge producer ended his life at 42 years old. He took his own life while I was out there. When we’re feeling down, talk about it. Reach out. There is help on the other side. Thank you for doing what you’re doing. Thank you for being the amazing human being that you are, and one day at a time, keep it up.
Right back at you. I love the work that you all are doing. You’re helping so many folks. Anytime you need me for anything, like writing a song for somebody, I’m here.
If someone wants to reach out to you, what would be the best way for them to do so?
I was going to say his people, probably.
I’ve got amazing managers, agents, and an incredible assistant. I also have a multimedia company called Community Culture, and we’re on Instagram, so you can find the things that we’re doing there as well. It’s CmntyCulture.com.
Excellent. Thank you so much.
For more information or to reach you, Dr. Flowers, how can folks get in touch?
I would say go to our website, JFlowersHealth.com
I’d like to remind everyone reading that there are numerous platforms to find our show, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, Spotify, Stitcher, and iHeartRadio. Please share this episode on social media or with someone that you think it could help. We remind you also that a clear diagnosis is key to the most effective treatment possible.
Yes, it is.
See you again next time.
Thanks again, Robin
Thank you.
Important Links
- Philip Lawrence
- Instagram – Community Culture
- YouTube – Understanding The Human Condition
- Apple Podcasts -Understanding The Human Condition
- SoundCloud – Understanding The Human Condition
- Spotify -Understanding The Human Condition
- iHeart Radio -Understanding The Human Condition
