Harold Owens and Jimmy Mooney met each other over twenty years ago through their individual journeys to recovery and hit it off from the very beginning. In fact, Harold even credits Jimmy with saving his life. Today, Harold and Jimmy reflect on their struggles with addiction and what led them both to work specifically in the addiction treatment field. They expound on the amazing gifts that they received and continue to receive from this journey to recovery and open up about the magic that lies within their friendship. Finally, Harold and Jimmy provide advice to those who are interested in pursuing a career in the field of addiction treatment and encourage them to be continual learners in their pursuit of this goal.
Key Takeaways
01:28 – Harold Owens and Jimmy Mooney join the show to share their unique friendship and the amazing gifts they received through recovery
11:48 – Harold reflects on his own recovery and a career transition he recently underwent
16:12 – Jimmy speaks to the power of being an organ donor
18:37 – Struggles Jimmy had to overcome throughout his journey
21:51 – The magic in Harold and Jimmy’s friendship
23:21 – Advice Harold and Jimmy would give to those looking to enter into the recovery industry
26:02 – Dr. Flowers thanks Harold and Jimmy for joining the show and lets listeners know where they can learn more
Resources Mentioned
JFlowers Health Institute – https://jflowershealth.com
JFlowers Health Institute Contact – (713) 783-6655
Subscribe on your favorite player: https://understanding-the-human-condition.captivate.fm/listen
Harold’s Email – harold.owens@icloud.com
Harold’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/harold-owens-b7514b12
Jimmy’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmy-mooney-17423693
**The views and opinions expressed by our guests are those of the individual and do not necessarily reflect those of J. Flowers Health Institute. Any content provided by our co-host(s) or guests are of their opinion and are not intended to reflect the philosophy and policies of J. Flowers Health Institute itself. Nor is it intended to malign any recovery method, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual, or anyone or anything.
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Harold Owens And Jimmy Mooney – Becoming A Compassionate Human Being In A Graceless Age
Looking Back
Welcome, everyone, to Understanding the Human Condition. I’m your host, Dr. James Flowers, with J. Flowers Health Institute. I’m recording here from the beautiful San Diego, California, Del Coronado Hotel. If you guys see the beach and hear people walking behind me, just welcome all the background noise for today because it’s a beautiful scene out here in California. Jimmy, you’re on the other coast, you’re on the East Coast in Georgia on Jekyll Island.
I am.
It’s so good to see you. Thank you, and Harold, thank you for joining us. Are you in LA?
I am, and good to see you guys, my two good friends here.
You two best friends. We have wanted to do this several times, and for some reason or another, each time one of us had a conflict, and today we were able to do it. I’m super excited to talk to Jimmy Mooney, who is what I always call treatment royalty, and Harold Owens, who is an icon in this industry. I couldn’t have two better guests. What I thought I would do is, Jimmy, I’d really like you to introduce your best friend, Harold, and Harold, I’m going to ask you to introduce Jimmy. Jimmy, introduce the world to Harold Owens.
Thank you, James. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here, and I’ll tell you, Harold and I, we’ve got a really interesting history. We met each other way back in 2002. It’s been a while. We were visiting a treatment center. I was CEO at Willingway Hospital in Statesboro, Georgia, and I visited a lot of treatment centers. I was down in South Florida visiting a treatment center, and Harold was there at the same time. We met each other and hit it off from the very beginning. We became really good friends, and we laughed. We went out to eat on a Saturday night, and they had deep-fried filet mignon on the menu. When he ordered that, I said, “I know we’re going to be great friends.”
Chicken-fried filet mignon.
Deep-fried.
I was embarrassed to even mention that I wanted that, but as soon as somebody said something, I was in.
Harold was Executive Director at MusiCares at that time, and so that allowed my wife, Robin, and I to do some volunteer work for MusiCares. I just got to know Harold, and we’ll talk about some of the issues that he went through that I was able to help him out with, and some health issues. Anyway, my closest friend and a great friend, a great person. This is Harold Owens.
Well, back at you, Jimmy. I must say, James, that Jimmy said we had that dinner, and I immediately just fell in love and adored Robin and Jimmy when we met. There was something about Jimmy, it’s really a tale of recovery stories. I found a little history of Jimmy and Jimmy’s family, and it just was an immediate friendship that we developed. I respected him on so many different levels, professionally, obviously, with Willingway Hospital. I was out there looking at treatment centers as well. I think we both found the worst treatment center in the world. I won’t mention it, but it was in Florida, and we all laughed about that.
During our early stages of friendship and getting to know, Jimmy had so many different things in his program, so many things I was looking for in a treatment center. It was independent, and they had just a great community there in Statesboro. From there on, I invited him, I think the first event Jimmy was at was the Country Music Awards in Nashville to do a Safe Harbor Room. We started doing that, and, which we still continue to do, I’m no longer with MusiCares. Formerly, I retired in October, but we just have had this amazing, enduring friendship over the years.
You guys have, and everyone in the industry, from the East Coast to the West Coast, from the Northwest Coast to the Southwest Coast, everyone knows Harold Owens, and everybody knows Jimmy Mooney. Everybody also knows that you guys are two amazing human beings and two best friends. The title of this podcast really is Understanding the Human Condition, and you guys are a great example of understanding the human condition because at one point in your life, Harold, you were experiencing some health difficulties. Jimmy, whether you found out or were told, or you all had a conversation, I want you to tell the story. Jimmy really offered up something to you that was an amazing gift. I was wondering if you guys would feel comfortable, Harold, if you’d feel comfortable, talking about your struggle and where you were and how it came to be that you received this amazing gift.
Thank you, James. It was a life-threatening event. What happened with me is I was suffering from hypertension. I went to a doctor, my labs were just crazy. He said immediately that I had chronic kidney disease, and that I’m going to have to go on dialysis or get a transplant. At this point, I think it was about 2007, I was just totally freaked out. Jimmy and I had already been best friends and had a relationship, and I didn’t know how to ask for help, really. I didn’t know how to put the word out to ask people to help, to get tested for a kidney donor. I don’t know what happened, maybe a friend did it. Anyway, I get a call from Jimmy and Robin.
Believe me, getting a kidney, it’s not just Jimmy that is honoring my body with a piece of his, it’s the family too. That is an important thing because that’s something that Robin and Jimmy and Jimmy’s extended family had to discuss. It was a profound experience that, had it not been for my recovery and Jimmy’s, we would have never met and become friends. Had it not been for the program and AA and us meeting in this way, I’d be dead right now. I mean that, James, I do mean that. I almost died twice on the dialysis chair. It was just something I’ll never forget in my life, and I hold Jimmy in the highest regard as a human being.
“Had it not been for my recovery – and Jimmy’s – we would’ve never met and became friends. But, had it not been for the program – Alcoholics Anonymous – and us meeting in this way, I’d be dead right now.”
It is absolutely a life-threatening disease that you were going through, and as you said, you almost died twice. Jimmy, what was it in your heart and in your mind that made this decision, and how did you come to this decision?
Let me back up because it’s interesting. When Harold and I met, that was in 2002, and it was October the 1st of 2002. October the 1st of 2008, I was in LA to give him a kidney. To the day, that was a God thing.
We had him on his birthday, which is October 1st.
He was celebrating his anniversary. It was a total God thing. We were in Nashville at the Country Music Awards to do the Safe Harbor Room, it must have been 2006, and Harold, we were in line at the barbecue place for lunch, and Harold told me and Robin then that he was having health issues and he was going to have to go on dialysis. I started praying, and I did a little research online. What I found out, I’m O negative, Harold’s O positive, and what I found out is the positive and negative doesn’t matter. I said, I approached him, “Let me get tested,” because there didn’t appear to be anybody else that was going to be able to do it or whatever. I went and got tested out at Cedars-Sinai, and we were a perfect match.
Another guy.
Even my sister wasn’t a match, James.
I had this overwhelming feeling that I had to do something, and I know, I believe, that was God telling me that I needed to step up and do something to help Harold because he was my best friend before any of this happened. I go back, and to me, it was God working in my life, in his life, and using us to touch the other person. It’s been just as much of a blessing for me as it was for him too.
What was that conversation like with your wife, Robin, and how quickly did you say yes?
I don’t want to say it was difficult because I just brought it up, and she had a lot of fear. She wanted me to do it. She felt like we needed to do it, but there was a lot of fear there, a fear of the unknown because that’s not a simple medical procedure. My life could have been in jeopardy too, for a number of reasons. But Robin, she agreed to it, and she supported me in doing that.
It’s much harder on the donor than the recipient for the surgery.
Is that right?
We had a harder time in recovery than I did for a few days, and that was tough.
After the surgery, the recipient feels immediately better, and the donor feels immediately worse. That’s just a short period of time, and it’s made no difference. I don’t even know that I’ve done it now, as far as my physical health.
Life In Recovery
What a life-changing decision that was, Jimmy, both on your part and Harold receiving that. What an amazing story and what an amazing friendship. That really, to me, is understanding the human condition of each other and being best friends and helping each other. That’s true generosity, and Jimmy, you did an amazing thing. Harold, you’ve lived an amazing life. Why don’t you talk a little bit about your life and recovery, Harold? Because you’ve had an amazing career, and I know that you’ve made a huge change in your life career-wise, so if you could talk just a little bit about that transition.
I got sober October 1st, 1988, and during that time, it was very much a learning experience for me about what I was going to do, what God had in store for me, and where I was led. It led me into the world of recovery and working in treatment once again. I was a program director of a hospital-based program in the ’90s, pretty much during the entire decade. In that program, I started working with the entertainment community, actors, musicians, and that population of creative people. I got a good career out of that, and then I went over to Music Cares.
I think post-transplant, this is the irony of things, things started readjusting in my life. While I was fearing death for a couple of years, I think in my heart I said to myself, “Harold, you’re only 56, but I don’t think you’ve got too many years left.” Jimmy gives me a shot at life again. I got busy again. It took me about a year to really recover from the surgery. It’s a very traumatic thing, and it makes you very weak. Since that time, with MusiCares and on my own, I’ve always been somebody that gave back. I have been involved in a number of foundations and boards at different non-profits. Jimmy was too, he was very active in the YMCA and giving back to kids. That was another alignment in our friendship and a common bond.
I started a music school in Rwanda, which was ravaged by genocide in the early 1990s. We started a music school for teenagers, actually 12 to 18, and that was an exciting period. I have to take these pills twice a day to stay alive, but that transplant gave me a new lease on life and a new vigor for my mission here. It’s very clear. I did eventually retire six months ago from MusiCares and left it in a much better spot than when I started with another woman named Debbie Carroll. I’m retired. She didn’t retire, she left, but I’ve got a whole new career now. I scaled things back, and I’m working with a company called Hired Power with my good friend Nanette Zumwalt.
Ironically, we’ve been friends for many years, and she’s in need of a transplant as well. She’s got a different type of disease that causes the issue, I forget the name of it, but I’ve been a confidant to her and other people who’ve gone through transplants. As a result of my experience, I have guided them in what the process looks like. I often tell the donors to call my buddy Jimmy. He’ll tell you from that perspective what it’s like, and so we have a mission.
I just sent an end text before you said this, and I said, “Am I allowed to say on this podcast that you’re looking?”
I would have said it anyway.
She had another text and said, “Harold just brought it up.” What I would like to say is that Nanette Zumwalt is in search of and in need of a kidney.
She didn’t know how to ask, and I didn’t either. I think that when you need something like a transplant or organ donation, that’s a difficult ask. My old stuff, I’m not worthy of asking someone to give to me. She had kind of a, I don’t know if it’s the same for her, but I know we talked extensively about putting it out there. If you can’t do it, ask somebody else to do it for you on your behalf until you feel comfortable with it. That’s what she did, and I admire that she would do that.
You’re doing it right now. If there’s anyone out there that would have it weigh on your heart or your mind or your spirit to approach Nanette and discuss this with her, it can absolutely save a life.
Organ Donor
Let me say this, James. It’s an impactful experience to go through if you’re a donor because you literally save someone’s life. Long-term effects are very minimal from the donor’s standpoint. There’s a little transition period, but it’s been very little impact on me other than impacting my life and knowing that I literally saved somebody’s life. We work in a field where we save lives all the time, but this is really the first time that I felt I had a direct impact on somebody’s life, even though I’ve been in the treatment community my whole life.
“We work in a field where we save lives all the time. But this was really the first time that I felt I had a direct impact on somebody’s life.”
You saved a lot of lives, Jimmy.
On the outside, I was one of these supporting services, and it’s hugely impactful.
Jimmy, what is it that nowadays, and even with modern medicine, what is it that we look for, or physicians look for, in a match?
I’m sure the technology has advanced some since I did it. It was blood type and also the health of the donor. They will put you through some rigorous testing to make sure they’re not going to jeopardize your life. For instance, I’ve got high blood pressure, and my blood pressure was a little high when I went through the testing, and there was a question about whether I would be able to donate or not. I went through a lot of tests. But they’re very concerned about the donor, and I’m sure the technology has improved a lot since.
As for me, my background of alcoholism and drug addiction, even though it was 25 years out, I always think about how, had I not got sober, I never would have been a candidate because they will reject you if you’re actively using. In that sense, I really have had two lives. We always say this, like Jimmy said about people tending to say we save lives, I believe that’s God’s work. He saves, we’re just the messenger. This was literally, like Jimmy said, he did save my life. I tear up every time I talk about it. I would not be here if it hadn’t been for Alcoholics Anonymous and Jimmy Mooney.
Jimmy’s Struggles
That’s right, absolutely. Jimmy, you went through your own struggles in life. Your family really founded, your father founded, the very first hospital-based addiction treatment center in the South, I believe. You grew up in a house of recovery, in a house of addiction. Why don’t you talk a little bit about your own experience and how you got to the place that you’re in today as well? Because without being where you are today, you wouldn’t have been able to donate.
His dad was a pioneer.
In 1959, my dad, who was a well-respected physician in our small town of Statesboro, Georgia, got sentenced and ended up going to the Narcotic Farm, U.S. Public Service Hospital, in Lexington, Kentucky, where he got sober. He was addicted to narcotics and alcohol. He stayed there six months and came back. At that time, my mom was an addict and alcoholic also. When they came back, they started going to recovery meetings, and all of a sudden, our family was a recovering family. We went from that crazy, dysfunctional alcoholic family to a recovering family. My dad had no stigma. He wanted everybody to know that he was sober, and so people started coming to see him.
In the early ’60s, there were very few places to go to get help. He was a sober doctor, so people started coming to see him. In the ’60s, he started bringing them home with him. All of a sudden, we had these drunks living in our home with us, and they would stay with us a month or two. I was about fifteen years old at this time, and that’s when I started drinking because all of their attention and focus was on these alcoholics. Us kids, the pressure was off, and we were able to do what we wanted to do. Anyway, that’s when I started drinking. It’s partly hereditary, and I didn’t stand much of a chance. That’s when I got into my drinking and drug use.
I ended up getting sober in 1985. At that time, I was working at the treatment center they had opened, Willingway, in 1971, and I had gone to work at Willingway while not sober yet. I ended up getting sober in 1985, and I have been sober ever since. One of the best gifts my parents ever gave me was introducing me to recovery, to a 12-step program, because when I needed help, I knew where to go.
“One of the best gifts my parents ever gave me was introducing me to recovery, to a Twelve Step program, because when I needed help I knew where to go”
That’s right. You guys get to spend, you’re on the East Coast, Jimmy, and Harold, you basically live on the West Coast, but you guys get to see each other or have been able to see each other over the years, really.
We’re road dogs, James.
You’re road dogs.
A year after the transplant, we took a great trip up to Alaska. I was looking at some of the old photographs, Jimmy. We were a little younger, and I was healthy again.
We’ve done some great trips.
We have a great history together.
Magic Of Friendship
What would you say, other than a life-saving procedure, is the beauty behind your friendship or the magic between your friendship? How have you guys maintained living on two different coasts of the United States? How do you maintain a good friendship?
There are a lot of things. Jimmy and I would have never met if we weren’t in recovery, number one. He’s from the South, I’m from the West. There are a lot of people who think, “God, this is an odd couple here,” all that stuff. But when it comes down to it, my feeling is almost like Jimmy was in a war zone with recovery. I was in a war for many years in my recovery.
I feel like we’re survivors and soldiers. When I equate it to the guys in Vietnam, they’re lifelong brothers because they have a common experience and trauma that binds them in a way that’s hard to describe in words. But I feel that has been, for me, one of the bases of things, Jimmy. We overlook so much. We don’t look at those differences, we look at the similarities and how great my life has been because I was able to oversee all of that stuff as well as you, Jimmy. This is what we do, this is how we help. We’re brothers in this.
Getting Into The Recovery Industry
I think, Jimmy, we may have just lost Jimmy for a few minutes, but Harold, I want to ask you, Jimmy may be jumping back on here in a second, but what I’d like to ask you is, what advice do you have for many young people now getting into the industry? They go to treatment, or they don’t go to treatment, they get into recovery, and they attend 12-step meetings, and they have a sponsor, and they’re doing their thing, and they decide they want to get into the recovery industry. What advice do you have?
That’s a great question, and Jimmy can say a lot to this as well. I had the great benefit of working in a hospital medical model where we saw people with complex medical issues as well as addiction, psychiatric issues as well as addiction. I learned from the doctors a great basis. It’s like a chef, before you become a chef, you’ve got to cut veggies, you’ve got to wash dishes. I started out with bedpans, taking people to meetings, and worked my way up and had a great understanding of what it’s like and how important that technician is.
When people ask me about this field, I always tell them, “How do you start? You go back to school, but you get a job as a tech and work your way up if you have no knowledge of this field.” Work in a setting where you see a lot of different people, a lot of different issues, and that’s my recommendation to them. It takes a while, just be patient, James.
I could not agree with you more. Starting out in this industry, it was a perfect analogy for you to say a chef cuts vegetables before they go in and prepare and direct the meal. So many people nowadays want to walk in and be the CEO of a new treatment center, and it’s so important to get your legs in the sand and get a firm foundation. Jimmy, any thoughts for you? Any advice on young folks who want to get into the industry after being in recovery for a while? Any advice for young folks getting into the industry, Jimmy?
I would say, learn as much as you can. There’s a lot of people who have been around the field for a long time. Get to know some of them and pick their brains. Get a lot of training. Go do as much training as you can and try to learn as much as you can. A lot of people who are in recovery want to give back, and you see a lot of people in recovery want to get into the field. The best thing you can do is to get educated and become knowledgeable and remain teachable. A mentor, Jimmy is a great mentor for people in the field.
“A lot of people who are in recovery want to give back and you see a lot of people in recovery want to get into the field. And the best thing I think you can do is become educated and knowledgeable and remain teachable.”
Episode Wrap-Up
Unfortunately, we’re just about out of time, and I want to leave this. Again, I’ve known you guys for many years. You’re amazing people in this field. Talk about mentors, I know both of you would be more than willing to help young people in the field. Jimmy, it’s an amazing gift that you gave Harold. Harold, you’ve lived an amazing life, and you continue to live an amazing life. I think that God brought you into Nanette’s life because now it’s Nanette’s turn.
I just really want to encourage everyone out there listening, Nanette Zumwalt is an amazing human being in this industry, an amazing human being in the world, and she is looking for a kidney. If anybody out there is interested in learning more about it, reach out to Jimmy, reach out to Harold. Harold, how do people reach you?
Email would be great, harold.owens@icloud.com, very easily.
Excellent, and you can reach Jimmy through Harold, so email Harold. I just want to thank everybody for joining us, it’s been an amazing episode. Harold, thank you. Jimmy, thank you very much.
Thank you. Really good seeing you guys.
You guys take good care. Thanks. Bye, everybody.
Bye-bye. Thank you.
I’d like to remind everyone watching or listening to us that there are numerous platforms to find our podcast, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, Spotify, Stitcher, and iHeartRadio. Please share this episode on social media or with someone that you think it could help. We remind you also that a clear diagnosis is key to the most effective treatment possible.
Yes, it is. See you again next week.
Thanks again, Robin.
Thank you.
Important Links
- James Flowers on LinkedIn
- Flowers Health Institute
- JFlowers Health Institute Contact – (713) 783-6655
- Subscribe on your favorite player: https://understanding-the-human-condition.captivate.fm/listen
- Harold Owens on LinkedIn
- Jimmy Mooney on LinkedIn
- MusiCares
- Willingway Hospital
- Cedars-Sinai
- Hired Power
- Nanette Zumwalt on LinkedIn
- Alcoholics Anonymous
- YouTube
- Apple Podcast
- SoundCloud
- Spotify
- Stitcher
- iHeart Radio
